{"id":347,"date":"2007-03-15T11:10:02","date_gmt":"2007-03-15T11:10:02","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/scientopia.org\/blogs\/goodmath\/2007\/03\/15\/spirituality-and-religion\/"},"modified":"2007-03-15T11:10:02","modified_gmt":"2007-03-15T11:10:02","slug":"spirituality-and-religion","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/2007\/03\/15\/spirituality-and-religion\/","title":{"rendered":"Spirituality and Religion"},"content":{"rendered":"<p> In general, I haven&#8217;t talked much about personal stuff on the blog, unless it related to<br \/>\nsomething else that I was already talking about. This post is going to be an exception to that.<\/p>\n<p> There&#8217;s a bit of a scienceblogs flamewar that started up, with <a href=\"http:\/\/scienceblogs.com\/interactions\/2007\/03\/so_why_am_i_a_christian_specif_1.php\">Rob Knop, a new SBer on one<br \/>\nside<\/a>, and a bunch of atheistic SBers on the other. I pretty much think arguments like this are a<br \/>\ntotal waste of time: Rob isn&#8217;t going to convince PZ that he&#8217;s not a delusional idiot for being<br \/>\nreligious; PZ isn&#8217;t going to convince Rob that he <em>is<\/em> a delusional idiot. It&#8217;s all just<br \/>\nranting.<\/p>\n<p> But as part of it, <a href=\"http:\/\/scienceblogs.com\/pharyngula\/2007\/03\/spirituality_another_word_for.php?utm_source=sbhomepage&amp;utm_medium=link&amp;utm_content=sublink\">PZ made a statement in one of his posts that bugged me<\/a>. It&#8217;s one he&#8217;s made before, and which I&#8217;m sure he&#8217;ll make again; but it&#8217;s an example of a kind of thinking that has always bothered me. The statement, from the title of his post, is &#8220;Spirituality? Another word for lies and empty noise&#8221;.<\/p>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<p> As long-time readers of GM\/BM know, I&#8217;m a religious Reconstructionist Jew. I don&#8217;t write about<br \/>\nmy religion, because I view it as a private matter, and one which isn&#8217;t likely to cast any<br \/>\nlight on much of anything. I&#8217;m not interested in converting anyone else to my beliefs, and I&#8217;m not particularly interested in listening to the same old silly rants from Christians or Atheists trying to convince me to adopt their beliefs.<\/p>\n<p> But throwing the concept of spirituality out the window because you don&#8217;t like religion is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. In fact, I would go so far as to say that based on reading PZs blog for several years, that <em>he<\/em> is actually a rather spiritual person.<\/p>\n<p> In these kinds of discussions, we constantly get related, but distinct, concepts all muddled together. Too many religious folks mix their belief in a deity up with all manner of other things &#8211; ranging from morality to free will &#8211; and present them as a single, inseparable, monolithic whole. And too many atheists accept that muddling too quickly. Just like there&#8217;s no real reason to insist that you can&#8217;t have real morality without religion, there&#8217;s no reason to insist that you can&#8217;t have something like spirituality without religion.<\/p>\n<p> So what do I mean when I say spirituality? There&#8217;s something more to my life than just a<br \/>\nbunch of chemical reactions. I <em>love<\/em> my wife. I <em>care<\/em> about other people. I core about the way the world is, and work for things that I think will make it a better place. These things &#8211; these emotions, desires, concerns &#8211; they may well be nothing more than emergent phenomena resulting from the basic physical and chemical processes that I am a part of. But <em>for my own experience of my life<\/em>, even if they are nothing more than an illusion, they <em>seem<\/em> real &#8211; as real as other abstractions like free will, morality, and other such things.<\/p>\n<p> The photograph of a waterfall and Banff on my wall isn&#8217;t solid. In fact, if I were to look at it very closely, it wouldn&#8217;t look anything like the waterfall. But all the tiny parts that make it up interact with light, which interacts with chemicals in the cells in my eyes to transmit a bunch of electrochemical signals to my brain, which result in me seeing something that looks like the waterfall. And most of the time, in my daily life, treating it as a picture of a waterfall in Banff is the right thing to do.<\/p>\n<p> To me, spirituality is something very similar to that. My experience of the world occurs on more than one level. There&#8217;s direct physical experience &#8211; I move around, I touch things, I see things. There&#8217;s a level of intellectual experience &#8211; I interpret what I see, and attempt to make sense of it, and decide how to react to things on some level beyond pure physical reflex. There&#8217;s an emotional level of experience: things make me happy, or angry, or frustrated. And there&#8217;s a spiritual: there is a level at which I am aware of  myself, my thoughts, and my emotions &#8211; where I can do more that just experience those things, but where I can observe them. Why do I love my wife? What connection do we share? Why do I want to make my children happy, even when it involves doing something that I don&#8217;t enjoy? There is that level to my experience, to my choices, and to my life which is absolutely real to me &#8211; and which I believe is real to someone like PZ too: look at his blog, the way he talks about how he feels about his wife. There&#8217;s some level of experience where we feel things like that. That&#8217;s spirituality.<\/p>\n<p> It&#8217;s not lies, and it&#8217;s not empty noise. In fact, it&#8217;s the part of life that I value the most. It has nothing to do with my religion; I tend to vary through phases of belief, and phases of agnosticism, but that part of my life is always there, and it&#8217;s always important. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In general, I haven&#8217;t talked much about personal stuff on the blog, unless it related to something else that I was already talking about. This post is going to be an exception to that. There&#8217;s a bit of a scienceblogs flamewar that started up, with Rob Knop, a new SBer on one side, and a [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[12],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-347","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-chatter"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p4lzZS-5B","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/347","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=347"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/347\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=347"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=347"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=347"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}