{"id":702,"date":"2008-11-11T14:44:31","date_gmt":"2008-11-11T14:44:31","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/scientopia.org\/blogs\/goodmath\/2008\/11\/11\/evolution-produces-better-antenna-casey-luskin-very-upset\/"},"modified":"2008-11-11T14:44:31","modified_gmt":"2008-11-11T14:44:31","slug":"evolution-produces-better-antenna-casey-luskin-very-upset","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/2008\/11\/11\/evolution-produces-better-antenna-casey-luskin-very-upset\/","title":{"rendered":"Evolution Produces Better Antenna; Casey Luskin Very Upset"},"content":{"rendered":"<p> It&#8217;s always amusing to wander over to the Discovery Institute&#8217;s blogs, and see what kind of nonsense they&#8217;re spouting today. So, today, as I&#8217;m feeling like steamed crap, I took a wander over. And what did I find? High grade, low-content rubbish from my old buddy, Casey Luskin. Luskin is, supposedly, a lawyer. He&#8217;s not a scientist or a mathematician by any stretch of the imagination. There&#8217;s nothing wrong with that in the abstract; the amount of time we have to learn during our lives is finite, and no one can possible know everything. For example, I don&#8217;t know diddly-crap about law, American or otherwise; my knowledge of western history is mediocre at best; I don&#8217;t really speak any language other than english. I know some physics, but my understanding of anything beyond the basics is very limited. Even when it comes to the topic of this blog, math, I&#8217;m at best an enthusiastic amateur.<\/p>\n<p><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"antenna.png\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/scientopia.org\/img-archive\/goodmath\/img_338.png?resize=216%2C181\" width=\"216\" height=\"181\" class=\"inset right\" \/><\/p>\n<p> The problem with Casey, and people like him, is that they&#8217;re ignorant of a topic where they <em>believe<\/em> that they&#8217;re experts. Growing up, I was taught to call that kind of behavior not just<br \/>\nignorant, but pig-ignorant. It&#8217;s a foolish kind of arrogance, where you believe that you know as much as people who&#8217;ve spent years studying something, even though you&#8217;ve never even read an elementary textbook. It&#8217;s like the dozens of people who&#8217;ve emailed my &#8220;disproofs&#8221; of Cantor&#8217;s theorem, when they don&#8217;t actually know what &#8220;cardinality&#8221; actually <em>means<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p> In <a href=\"http:\/\/www.evolutionnews.org\/2008\/11\/biologic_explores_the_successe.html#more\">this instance<\/a>, Casey is annoyed because a group of people at NASA used evolutionary algorithms to create a better antenna.<\/p>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<p> The fascinating thing about the antenna story is that<br \/>\nno one had any idea of just what a &#8220;better antenna&#8221; would look like. In fact, they wound up with something that looks like a paper clip bent into triangles. Let me repeat the <em>key<\/em> thing here: a bunch of<br \/>\nengineers wanted a better antenna. They had <em>no idea<\/em> what that<br \/>\nbetter antenna would look like. But by throwing it into an evolutionary<br \/>\nalgorithm, they produced an antenna <em>better than anything designed by a human being<\/em>. <\/p>\n<p> That&#8217;s pretty damned impressive, and pretty difficult evidence to<br \/>\nconfront for anyone who wants to claim that random mutation plus selection can&#8217;t produce anything new. Of course, that wouldn&#8217;t stop someone like Casey: he, in his masterful brilliance, knows more about this than even the people who did the experiment!<\/p>\n<p> So what&#8217;s Casey&#8217;s problem with this?<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p> The presumption of evolutionary biologists, of course, is that these &#8220;brilliant designs&#8221; evolved by natural selection preserving random, but beneficial mutations. Engineers operating under such presumptions have thus tried to mimic not only the &#8220;brilliant designs,&#8221; but also the evolutionary processes that allegedly produced the designs. Biologic&#8217;s article notes that one success story of such methods was the case of NASA engineers who used evolutionary computing to produce a better antenna.<\/p>\n<p> Did they use truly Darwinian &#8220;evolutionary computing?&#8221; The article goes on to discuss how design parameters were smuggled into the simulation, such that it really wasn&#8217;t a truly unguided Darwinian evolutionary scenario.<\/p>\n<p>So what exactly can unguided Darwinian evolutionary computing actually produce? Probably not very much, but this is a research question that Biologic is attempting to tackle. As their research page says, they are exploring &#8220;fundamental laws governing the origin of information&#8221; by &#8220;building and testing computational models that mimic the role of genetic information in specifying functions by means of structure-forming sequences.&#8221;<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p> In essence, he claims that the antenna is <em>really<\/em> designed, because the engineers &#8220;smuggled&#8221; information into the system, meaning that it&#8217;s not truly an &#8220;unguided Darwinian evolution scenario&#8221;.<\/p>\n<p> First and most important, <em>no one ever claimed that<br \/>\nevolutionary techniques like this are perfect simulations of biological Darwinian evolution<\/em>. Casey is, as usual, battling against a<br \/>\nstraw man. If you were to point out to the engineers involved that this simulation wasn&#8217;t a true simulation of biological evolution, their<br \/>\nresponse would be something along the lines of &#8220;Yeah, so?&#8221;<\/p>\n<p> Second, nothing was <em>smuggled<\/em> in to the system. As Casey himself points out, they&#8217;re <em>very<\/em> open about the fact that they provided a lot of data. From <a href=\"http:\/\/biologicinstitute.org\/2008\/10\/17\/the-genius-behind-the-ingenious\/\">their article:<\/a><\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p>How impressively it works, though, depends on what you were<br \/>\nexpecting. You can&#8217;t fault the NASA engineers for choosing the automated<br \/>\nevolutionary approach when you consider the alternative&#8211;a pair of<br \/>\nneedle-nose pliers, half a ton of paper clips, and a whole lot of wrist<br \/>\nstrain. But if you really saw evolutionary computing as a high-speed<br \/>\nversion of the process that produced all the jaw-dropping designs of<br \/>\nbiology, well&#8230; you ought to be more than a little disappointed.<\/p>\n<p> Equally sobering is the likelihood that this striking<br \/>\ndisparity&#8211;between the stunning things attributed to evolution and the<br \/>\nmodest things we get by harnessing it&#8211;will persist.<\/p>\n<p>Two major limitations to evolutionary processes seem to assure this.<br \/>\nFirst, it turns out that if you want these processes to go anywhere, you<br \/>\nreally do need to master the design principles specific to your<br \/>\nobjective. You&#8217;d better believe the NASA team did their homework for the<br \/>\ntask they were tackling&#8211;they knew what materials to use, they knew the<br \/>\nrange of dimensions to explore, they knew what kind of geometric space<br \/>\nto explore, and they knew how to model the performance of any prototype<br \/>\nwithin those specifications. So the software they used was intelligently<br \/>\npre-configured for this particular design task and no other.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p> As they said &#8211; to design an antenna using evolutionary techniques, you need to start with an understanding of exactly what you&#8217;re looking for, what range of space to try to cover with your mutations,<br \/>\nhow to perform the mutations, how to evaluate different results<br \/>\nduring the selection phase, and so on.<\/p>\n<p> That doesn&#8217;t distract from the amazing outcome. A system based<br \/>\non replication, mutation, and selection produced a <em>better design<\/em> for the antenna than the best designed by intelligent human engineers. And none of the engineers could have predicted that outcome.<\/p>\n<p> Casey, as usual, is trying to play the intelligent design game of saying that evolution can&#8217;t produce information. From the standpoint<br \/>\nof information theory, as I&#8217;ve pointed out <a href=\"http:\/\/scientopia.org\/blogs\/goodmath\/2007\/09\/a-glance-at-the-work-of-dembski-and-marks\">time<\/a> and <a href=\"http:\/\/scientopia.org\/blogs\/goodmath\/2006\/07\/bad-bad-bad-math-aig-and-information-theory\">again<\/a>, that&#8217;s just pure rubbish. Random processes, <em>by definition<\/em> produce huge quantities of information. In fact, the interesting thing about the<br \/>\nkinds of systems that make up living things isn&#8217;t <em>how much<\/em> information they encode, but <em>how little<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p> A DNA molecule is an amazing thing. It&#8217;s a stable system for<br \/>\nencoding a quantity of information that is essential for the function<br \/>\nof life as we understand it. But from an information-theory standpoint,<br \/>\nit&#8217;s really amazingly sparse. It&#8217;s a double-helix, where each half of the helix contains exactly the same information as the other half. It&#8217;s got a substantial backbone, which is copied over and over and over down the chain. It&#8217;s really <em>highly<\/em> compressible.<\/p>\n<p> But back to Casey. The nub of his argument is that there&#8217;s nothing<br \/>\ninteresting about the production of this new antenna, because the &#8220;information&#8221; needed to produce it was &#8220;smuggled&#8221; in to the simulation. But if that&#8217;s <em>really<\/em> the case, then the question is, why did the engineers bother with an evolutionary process? Why didn&#8217;t they just<br \/>\nuse their information to figure out what the optimal antenna geometry was? Engineers are known for being very down to earth, practical, results-oriented people. If they could produce the optimal solution<br \/>\nby themselves, they would. But the fact of the matter is, they couldn&#8217;t.  They <em>didn&#8217;t<\/em> have the information that they needed to figure out<br \/>\nwhat the optimal antenna could look like.<\/p>\n<p> So no matter what kind of stupid arguments Casey wants to make about information, the final fact remains: that the shape of the optimal antenna was <em>not<\/em> included in the input the the evolutionary simulation, but the simulation produced something superior to the best efforts of the intelligent, skilled engineers.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>It&#8217;s always amusing to wander over to the Discovery Institute&#8217;s blogs, and see what kind of nonsense they&#8217;re spouting today. So, today, as I&#8217;m feeling like steamed crap, I took a wander over. And what did I find? High grade, low-content rubbish from my old buddy, Casey Luskin. Luskin is, supposedly, a lawyer. He&#8217;s not [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[31],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-702","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-intelligent-design"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p4lzZS-bk","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/702","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=702"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/702\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=702"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=702"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.goodmath.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=702"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}